Dear Brigitte 11th January 2005
Thank you for your e-mail.
My great grandfather was John Marmion of Grange
outside Kikeel County Down born about 1820 .Grange
was regarded by my greatuncles as the family home.
I have copies of the Rent registers - for the Kilmorey
Estate which have an Arthur as a leaseholder in Lurganconery
(the townland next to Grange) between 1806 and 1816 This is
confirmed in what I take to be a census roll of 1821- the official
poll was not published the first official was 1841and the best
1851 By the time of the latter I believe ggf John held
Lurganconary. Going back to the rent roll Lurganconary is
to the east of the Whitewater river across it to the west is
Lurganreagh where there are listed a George and Patrick.
Further up the river at Ballymagart
there was a Christopher Marmion whose date of birth I do not
know but he held the mill there between 1790 and 1816+. He was
involved in the 1798 Wolfe Tone rising and was imprisoned in
Newry though released after some years he never recovered There
is no record of his descendants if he had any. Between
Lurganconary and Ballymagart there is Ballyardle where are
listed three Marmions Henry Mary and Anne. Their
leaseholder is a J Dowdall. The Dowdalls held land for the
Marmions who were disenfrnchised as Catholics and interestingly Dowdall and Christopher M above were holders of a Linen Mill outside Newry. James Marmion is listed as a Kikeel resident no occupation stated. There is local folklore that the
Marmions originally held 15,000 acres in Mourne
I suspect that they were dispossessed at the time of Cromwell. I
think that the Marmions were
established in Mourne through deeds of lands granted by/through
Bishop John Marmion 1569-72
To return to Arthur there are two possibilities first that he left Moune
at the time of the first potato familne 1845 when his young son Henry
would have been 5+. Alternatively there was a depression in the mid 1830ies and an outbreak of Cholera which could have led to his departure. Patrick Marmion alias Captain Patrick was in goal in Downpatrick for
his part in the 98 rebellion he escaped twice. His 'Captaincy' has been assumed to have been military but a Patrick at this time sailed to Australia with a brother, did not like what he found and sailed again
to America where his family distinguished themselves in the Civil war. I hope this helps and makes sense!
Please let me know if I can be of further help.
Best wishes,
Vincent Marmion
Ps Our family lore is that we originate from Scrivesby in Linconshire but there was a family in Gloucester who carried the name John which passed out of the local records about 1540 coincidence or not?

Dear Brigitte, 14th January 2005
Thank you for your very intersting reply. It would have been unusual to have children born in different places the majority of confinemnets were home births, however by the 1830ies Midwifery was developing rapidly and in Dublin especially. On an histoical note in 1838 Oscar Wilde's father Sir William Wilde gained the prize in Midwifery in Dublin 'against stiff foreign opposition' which says a lot about Dublin's standing. Newry is eighteen miles from Kilkeel, it was probably more comfortable to travel there up Carlingford Lough than overland. I am sure that no one would try to smuggle Brandy over the mountains when bringing it in by sea was so easy. Lurganconary is situated on a stretch of the Whitewater which is navigable to a rowing boat -- and it was used to smuggle whiskey from the South during the last war ! Kilkeel is now one of the most active fishing ports in Northern Ireland but I am unsure as to when its development started.
Old maps 15th C give Mourne as the McCartan fiefdom but it is recorded as derelict and virtually uninhabited by the mid 16th C in the Calendar of State Papers Ireland.
Esquire denotes a landholder or a man of property.
The '98 rebellion was an attempt to secure through French help Independance for Ireland. One of the better books on it is by the late Frank Pakenham - Lord Longford. If I remember correctly the Anthony Marmion who was executed in Dundalk was from outside Rostrevor, this is about six miles from Newry and on the other side of the mountains from Lurganconary. There is another Anthony Marmion possibly his son who was based in Dundalk and was a Barrister who was active in the cause of Catholic emancipation and wrote on the Maritime ports of Ireland in which Kilkeel is mentioned briefly.
Finally Lurganconary is just three miles from Kilkeel. You would walk it in an hour and ride leisurely on a horse in twenty minutes so there would be no problem with joint ventures.
There were and are other Marmions near Dromore in County Down an area known as Lecale.
Best wishes,

Dear Brigitte 27th February 05
Apologies for my delay in replying. I have a limited ammount of information here at home on Arthur.The best way tounravel your query is for me to visit the Public Recods Office Northern Ireland- known as PRONI - when I am over there possibly in May. They have the Annesley / Kilmorey records which should reveal some light though I do not know the frequency of updating at the begining of the 19th C.I doubt if there are records of births, I will ask an old friend who spent some years as the Obstetrician in Newry and who wrote a PhD on the Jubliee Maternity Hospital in Belfast.
There is a strong family trait towards various Christian names with us John, Patrick, James, William and lesser Henry and Peter. Great Uncle Henry was a Doctor who qualified in Edinburgh, at that time 1890 you had to have both Latin and Greek to be admitted to Medical School.
How did they manage that from farming backgrounds,
given the repression of Catholic Education?
Can you bear with me untill I can get over to Belfast.
Best wishes,

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